Why are snipers balanced so poorly?

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27.04.2019, 12:23

In the current version ASVK and Barrett both deal 122 damage through the heaviest armor in the game. Why is the number so much over the maximum health capacity? I did the math and if you take pilgrim set with +5 armor and you pick up two onyx artifacts and keep them passive in your inventory you will still get INSTANTLY killed to the torso.

I'd suggest lowering the massive armor penetration (50) to a reasonable level, or just simply reducing the damage to a reasonable level, for example (100-120)

Currently snipers have 0 counterplay and you are forced to lose against 8 incompetent players who are using these weapons as crutches.

I'd appreciate developer feedback on this topic.
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Kube
 
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28.04.2019, 22:25

but if i can not use a Sniper and oneshot everyone i will go back to CS:GO. meh.

funny Thing is: ASVK and Barett are t5, so you Need to climb t5 until you oneshot accuratly.

That means many People (noobs) cry because their tier1 Sniper is not oneshotting.

Maybe devs gonna make t1 Snipers oneshot too, to get the noobies into the game lol

probably it is a hard quest to balance noobs and vets properly.
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OneThreeOneTwo
 
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29.04.2019, 14:13

OneThreeOneTwo:

probably it is a hard quest to balance noobs and vets properly.


best thing in my opinion would be to reduce the bullet speed and increase the bullet drop to make it harder to hit on greater distance. Just like it was before 0.55 when all weapon's range was increased. I remember to aim a lot higher than the actually crosshair of the scope back then. Maybe add these two punishments on the silencer when someone is using one on his or her Sniper rifle.

Or add something like wind that will effect the bullets direction (would be really cool, but i can imagine its hard to make it properly working)

Bretzelbub
 
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29.04.2019, 19:17

Yeah, in other games sniping is so hard that only few people do it, here it is easy mode.

in bf for example bullet speed and bullet drop is so big that on large distance you are not going to hit anything if you do not really know what you are doing. I have to aim 5-10 meters to side of my target expecting movement to score kill.
and 1shots are only for example 100-125m for one rifle 125-150 for other rifle
called "sweet spot" where sniper rifle deals 100% dmg, so they can not use them like shotguns(something players here do all the time with 0zoom scopes)

Here it is easy and 1 shots.
That is also why for long time i've played exclusively with sniper rifles.

But now after the tier changes, i m waiting for that berrett from the treasure hunt.
As other s rifles are not so great.

S-rifle should be hs only instant kill vs heavy armor.
Always instant kill vs light.
2artefacts medium armor, idk about this one

Midori Fuse
 
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30.04.2019, 19:42

Snipers are balanced poorly because hitreg is shitty.
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ike07
 
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30.04.2019, 21:28

ike07:Snipers are balanced poorly because hitreg is shitty.


Dear God, hitreg today was the worst. My ping was jumping from 70 to 200 and I wasn't able to win a single 1 on 1 combat. White crosses, terrible hitreg, da hell?!
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wllayco
 
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01.05.2019, 01:43

So let's say sniper rifles were no longer capable of one shotting heavy armor, what is a sniper player supposed to do after landing a successful shot, hope for bleed, get mowed down by laser automatics during the time it takes to switch to a sidearm?

Konstantyn
 
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01.05.2019, 06:07

Konstantyn:So let's say sniper rifles were no longer capable of one shotting heavy armor, what is a sniper player supposed to do after landing a successful shot, hope for bleed, get mowed down by laser automatics during the time it takes to switch to a sidearm?


heavy armor is slower, so you can simply land the headshot or git good, and to switch to sidearm does not take long.
Why do i have to land 2-3 headshots to kill people and you do not with much more accurate gun with practically infinite range?

You are holding 100% accurate tool of destruction with range of 400meters that is more often used as shotgun with 1x scope than 4x/8x zoom with largest penetration in whole game, including the wall penetration of concrete 10.
With same attack speed as shotguns have. And largest bleed chance ingame.

You know, to balance weapons they need to have some negative to them, if you are bad at aiming, use SOCOM or SVD.


Should we buff minimi to have no slowdown,higher attacked speed and no recoil?

Realism goes off the window when 20 shots from pkp do not kill people, now it is question of balance.
Last edited by Midori Fuse on 01.05.2019, 06:08, edited 1 time in total.

Midori Fuse
 
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01.05.2019, 07:20

It's not about aiming.

The packet loss / delay and fps changes, the bad hitreg, all this make that nothing can be balanced because the game transform the weapons and armor stats in a voodoo formula.
Last edited by ike07 on 01.05.2019, 07:26, edited 6 times in total.
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ike07
 
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01.05.2019, 07:54

But you need it. With bad hitreg, lags, constant framedrops, people running around eradically, a bad movement system and so on you need to OHK them or else you're dead.
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Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer
 
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01.05.2019, 13:47

Imagine the fact that .50BMG can penetrate around 16mm of steel at 500m distance and 13mm at 1000m
Since i couldn't find any information about 12.7x108 (ASVK/ KSVK round) i think that penetration is around the same as .50BMG

12312412414
 
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01.05.2019, 16:47

I think the problem lays in the assault rifle recoil and accuracy. Snipers need to be one hit kill in order to compete against AR's currently. The recoil pattern is too consistent and the weapon dispersion is too low when spraying. It eliminates the skill and the need to burst to stay accurate. Make the AR's harder to use, then nerf the T5 Sniper damage down to where you can't one shot heavy armors.

Both the Barrett and the ASVK are hard to balance because they don't fit into the game. High speed 50.cal's are not for shooting people. That's where the VSSK ends up being reasonably balanced, being subsonic 50.cal. Honest opinion is that they should be removed from PVP but that's not happening.

Not saying this is the ultimate solution but I really want Vostok to pay attention and understand that there's a significant issue here.
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Daemorth
 
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02.05.2019, 07:22

12312412414:Imagine the fact that .50BMG can penetrate around 16mm of steel at 500m distance and 13mm at 1000m
Since i couldn't find any information about 12.7x108 (ASVK/ KSVK round) i think that penetration is around the same as .50BMG


And ash12 can penetrate heavy body armor, make you literally explode at 100m while here it has range of 25m and needs 4 to 40 bullets to kill without headshot.

I do not see how is that relevant to GAME balance discussion.
I mean I'm all up for game to be realistic, but that will mean people will 1shot you with pistol at any range avaible ingame, and if you survive first shot you will get infection and bleed out for 10billions of damage per seconds, also shot from pistol will drop you down making you unable to do anything for 30minutes.
Shooting close to you will pernamently damage your hearing too
My laser on weapon will make your screen black for rest of the match, because you will be blinded
etc

:^)

Midori Fuse
 
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03.05.2019, 14:46

1. Remove crosshair, make shooting from the hip as "spraying in that general direction" with only use in point blank.
2. Buff all rifles[all weapons] to be competitive if used on semi-auto. (Go try kill some people with HK416 on semi :D)

GG, literally every weapon has potential. Weapons have their specifics, but what really matters is who is doing the shooting.

Every time people start to talk about "Balance" I just picture those whacky "I believe in aliens" people, cant help it.
You can look at these kind of treads from 5 years ago, it's all the same.

P.S
I seriously doubt that 12.7x55 can make anything explode. Usually low velocity projectile does only as much damage as projectile/fragments does, since it cant break the barrier of flesh "elasticity" like even the smallest 5.45 can, leaving way more damage from shockwave ripping apart things that bullet didn't even touch with 10x smaller projectile than 12.7x55. I think it's purpose is similar to 9x39 - stealth(subsonic), defeating lower class body armor[soft body armor] and increased max range(maximum what subsonic can do). Not going "tratataaaa" on auto. So here is another whole disaster - all weapons are copy-pasta with no specific use, pros and cons, just "tratataa". VG tried to make something with with these "WoW" stats instead of making good weapons rare or having choices, like older AKM is nice shooter, but if you can get later AKM with rail for optics is like whole different thing with whole bunch of options. But naah, easier to put "30 damage" on it and dump whole damn any kind of rails, acogs, potato-tomato grips and lazers.
Last edited by SMARCH on 03.05.2019, 15:17, edited 1 time in total.
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SMARCH
 
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08.05.2019, 19:11

Let's face it- if SRs won't ohk, they can be as well throw into a dumpster, because of ARs accuracy over distance. Currently, if a sniper is involved in duel with a player with AR and misses, chances that he'll survive are rather low, even at distance. So generally, it's a larger and more complicated problem than 'It's all SR fault', and removing ohk ability would pretty much eradicated entire weapon class from being relevant - wchich is, dare I say, even worse than what we have now.
Sniper rifles are too powerful right now, yes - but they must be balanced different way (unless we're talking full weapon rebalance). Hell, there was time, when they had very high dispersion while moving - maybe that would help? At least with quickscoping.
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Major Stifmeister
 
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09.05.2019, 00:16

Major Stifmeister:Let's face it- if SRs won't ohk, they can be as well throw into a dumpster, because of ARs accuracy over distance. Currently, if a sniper is involved in duel with a player with AR and misses, chances that he'll survive are rather low, even at distance. So generally, it's a larger and more complicated problem than 'It's all SR fault', and removing ohk ability would pretty much eradicated entire weapon class from being relevant - wchich is, dare I say, even worse than what we have now.
Sniper rifles are too powerful right now, yes - but they must be balanced different way (unless we're talking full weapon rebalance). Hell, there was time, when they had very high dispersion while moving - maybe that would help? At least with quickscoping.


Look i do not even give a poo if they ohk at long distance, my issue is that people use them as better shotgun.
So at short range i'd like for them to do 90 dmg and you gotta finish ppl with pistol.
Or make shotguns do the damage on 500 meters, eitherway keep it consistent is my point.

With new attachment system scope-in is also way too quick for them, nearly instant, part of the new rebalance was slower scope in, they simply use collimators -x aim speed

Midori Fuse
 
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15.05.2019, 14:19

So looking at the winchester you realize it's the first sniper rifle that isn't OP. You can shoot 5 rounds in about 5 seconds when you have maximum chambering time. For comparison the barrett shoots 5 rounds in about 5.8 seconds. Winchester is able to oneshot armor values of under 39, so it's great against people who wear light T1 or T2 armor (which is nobody). Overall it's a nice addition back into the game, now can you please put all the snipers in line with this one?
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This wasnt a reply to this thread, thanks mods.
Last edited by Kube on 15.05.2019, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Kube
 
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