Why M4A1 inferior to AK47

Discuss the weapons and equipment belonging to the Black Market Faction.

19.10.2017, 08:50

In the past FPS games, M16 and AK47 has always always stand toe to toe with each other however I don't understand why M4A1 is consider inferior in Survarium. What I mean is why can't the M4A1 be place in Tier 3. Here how I see the evolution of the AK47 in Survarium.

Tier 1 we got the AKM, an older but worse version of the AK
Tier 2 we got the AKS-74U which is a shorter and lighter version of the AK-74
Tier 3 we got the AK-74 which is the superior AK with high recoil

Now I don't understand why the M16 doesn't have a similar evolution with only the black market having it
Here how I would organize it

Tier 1 we got the M16, an older but worse version of the rifle
Tier 2 we got the M4 which is a shorter and lighter version of the m16
Tier 3 we got the M4A2 which is the superior rifle that even the modern US military uses

The reason why I want the M4A1 moved to T3 is because I really like the gun and I to be able to use it on T3 without having the penalty of having the enemy resist more damage simply because the weapon is lower tier.
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Vodkajaeger
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 20.08.2017, 08:53
Location: USA, California

24.10.2017, 15:24

This type of question has ben the source of many debates among developers, RPG players and gamers alike, though from different perspectives and bases of reference.

Here's the raw- the M16/A1/A2/A3/M4/ ALL SHOOT THE SAME ROUND. 5.56 NATO 55 grain FMJBT atop 72 grains of smokeless powder. The cyclic rate, weapon reliability, fire selection and effective range are the variants that fluctuate between the models. the Federal government has classed this round, as a damage factor of 7, the same as a .45ACP at point blank range, AT 300 yards. Because at 300 yards, the round has begun a slight wobble, especially from the M16, the A1 and the M4 varieties. Because they had a 1:16 twist of the rifling inside the barrel. the M4 has a 1:9 , however, with the shorter barrel, the round begins to wobble because of energy expended spinning faster than out of a longer barrel - hence 300 yards out of an M4 is.. plausible, but we don't have all day several times a month to become proficient with the weapon at that range in good conditions. At 300 yards, that round hits at an oblique angle, placing more mass against the target than the spire tip. More mass on target, specifically soft target, providing more kinetic energy transferal. Basically, knocking you on your fourth point of contact AFTER ripping through you sideways.

The AK47 is FAMOUS for its reliability, IN ALL RENDITIONS. The AK fires an 7.62x54 round. EXCEPT the AKS/M Shorter than our beloved .308 hunting cartridge, commonly used in the M60 Machine guns, and our Remington M700. But.. the same diameter bullet. The important first Difference: Soviet era ammunition is all armor piercing, did you know that? Even the 9mm p in the Makarov. THe bullets are / were Full Metal Jacketed lead encased steel cord slugs. Heavier than the M16 slugs, bigger, slightly slower and less effective range than the M16 in each variety. You can hear the distinctive sound of an AK, because it sounds like your dumb big brother pounding on the walls as he's coming for you. Yes, they hit hard, yes they do damage, but being steel cored, they retain thier shape, the slugs, and do more of a piercing damage than a shredding damage. Like a MODERN 9MM, which moves too fast to do any real damage other than punching holes in you. too little time for kinetic energy transferance, the AK has too little mass on target, retaining its shape the steel core slug, to transfer it's capable energy to target.
The AKS/M switched to a 5.56, mid to late nineties, and they have a higher cyclic rate, and less than comprable damage shot for shot. But then again, they pump out more bullets, I'd say 1.5 to 1 against the M16's 3 rnd burst cyclic.
The original Vietnam Era 16 was heavily prone to jam, no real means of ' in battle self remedying action' for lack of a better term, ( its called SPORTS but.. that's another story) the A1 had a forward assist, but still had the pronged flash hider, which catches on everything. the forward assist sucked and the rounds then were under powered.
THe A2 came out with more enumerated bolt carrier group, a dust cover for the ejection port, a round forward assist, to help self remedy any jam. It also came with a larger gas return tube, increasing the cyclic rate, subsequently balanced by the 3 round trigger group replacing the full auto of the M16/A1 varieties. The full length Barrel A2s and A3s came with the 1:9 rifling, but with cartridge performance and vendor changers, the HBAR variant was developed taking a 1:16 twist.. your basic sniper M16.
YOur question is "why isn't the M$ in category 3? I don't.. It's just a high powered 22 until you hit something far away with it. The Socom, is the pig you want to be hunting around. With a 30.06 round? That thing will kill a bear, an elk, an elephant, a car, your ex in laws in another damn state.. that thing has mass range, mass damage.. 30.06 is a hell of a round. fromthe jump./
M16 is in no way equal to the M14/M21 variants.

Bigger bullet than the M16, Same charge as the M16, large case allows for more expansion of the propellant BEFORE moving the slug.
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BBHSmash
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 02.06.2015, 11:15
Location: San Diego, California

24.10.2017, 17:56

BBHSmash:This type of question has ben the source of many debates among developers, RPG players and gamers alike, though from different perspectives and bases of reference.

Here's the raw- the M16/A1/A2/A3/M4/ ALL SHOOT THE SAME ROUND. 5.56 NATO 55 grain FMJBT atop 72 grains of smokeless powder. The cyclic rate, weapon reliability, fire selection and effective range are the variants that fluctuate between the models. the Federal government has classed this round, as a damage factor of 7, the same as a .45ACP at point blank range, AT 300 yards. Because at 300 yards, the round has begun a slight wobble, especially from the M16, the A1 and the M4 varieties. Because they had a 1:16 twist of the rifling inside the barrel. the M4 has a 1:9 , however, with the shorter barrel, the round begins to wobble because of energy expended spinning faster than out of a longer barrel - hence 300 yards out of an M4 is.. plausible, but we don't have all day several times a month to become proficient with the weapon at that range in good conditions. At 300 yards, that round hits at an oblique angle, placing more mass against the target than the spire tip. More mass on target, specifically soft target, providing more kinetic energy transferal. Basically, knocking you on your fourth point of contact AFTER ripping through you sideways.

The AK47 is FAMOUS for its reliability, IN ALL RENDITIONS. The AK fires an 7.62x54 round. EXCEPT the AKS/M Shorter than our beloved .308 hunting cartridge, commonly used in the M60 Machine guns, and our Remington M700. But.. the same diameter bullet. The important first Difference: Soviet era ammunition is all armor piercing, did you know that? Even the 9mm p in the Makarov. THe bullets are / were Full Metal Jacketed lead encased steel cord slugs. Heavier than the M16 slugs, bigger, slightly slower and less effective range than the M16 in each variety. You can hear the distinctive sound of an AK, because it sounds like your dumb big brother pounding on the walls as he's coming for you. Yes, they hit hard, yes they do damage, but being steel cored, they retain thier shape, the slugs, and do more of a piercing damage than a shredding damage. Like a MODERN 9MM, which moves too fast to do any real damage other than punching holes in you. too little time for kinetic energy transferance, the AK has too little mass on target, retaining its shape the steel core slug, to transfer it's capable energy to target.
The AKS/M switched to a 5.56, mid to late nineties, and they have a higher cyclic rate, and less than comprable damage shot for shot. But then again, they pump out more bullets, I'd say 1.5 to 1 against the M16's 3 rnd burst cyclic.
The original Vietnam Era 16 was heavily prone to jam, no real means of ' in battle self remedying action' for lack of a better term, ( its called SPORTS but.. that's another story) the A1 had a forward assist, but still had the pronged flash hider, which catches on everything. the forward assist sucked and the rounds then were under powered.
THe A2 came out with more enumerated bolt carrier group, a dust cover for the ejection port, a round forward assist, to help self remedy any jam. It also came with a larger gas return tube, increasing the cyclic rate, subsequently balanced by the 3 round trigger group replacing the full auto of the M16/A1 varieties. The full length Barrel A2s and A3s came with the 1:9 rifling, but with cartridge performance and vendor changers, the HBAR variant was developed taking a 1:16 twist.. your basic sniper M16.
YOur question is "why isn't the M$ in category 3? I don't.. It's just a high powered 22 until you hit something far away with it. The Socom, is the pig you want to be hunting around. With a 30.06 round? That thing will kill a bear, an elk, an elephant, a car, your ex in laws in another damn state.. that thing has mass range, mass damage.. 30.06 is a hell of a round. fromthe jump./
M16 is in no way equal to the M14/M21 variants.

Bigger bullet than the M16, Same charge as the M16, large case allows for more expansion of the propellant BEFORE moving the slug.


I'm just disappointed how M4A1 isn't on Tier 3. I understand the damage is MUCH less than the AK74 however atleast put it in the same tier as AK74
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Vodkajaeger
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 20.08.2017, 08:53
Location: USA, California

27.01.2018, 18:04

I may have gotten lost in my own rant earlier, I apologize. The NATO 5.56 DOES decent amount of damage. Actually, the damage inflicted increases over distance, depending on the hardware configuration. The M16A2, lets say, has an effective range of 1300 meters. You just have to be able to see that far, and know how to shoot that far. THen again, it has a different barrel than either the M16A1 or the M4. the M16 A2, has a 21"and an A3 variant have a 24" HBAR barrel. Longer, heavier, designed for shooting from the prone,and far away.

Your statement was, " I understand the damage is MUCH less... " see.. this is where the M4 shines. the AK (47) has a larger projectile, yes- heavier, much. But it's a steel core, layer of lead then copper jacketed round. It has nowhere near the range of the M16a2 of the same era. The steel core, makes these rounds armor piercing, and shoot through people, rather than transfer the kinetic energy, of projectile to target.

The M4, with its carbine configuration, throws that ne NATO round downrange, but doesn't have the standard barrel length, let alone the HBAR. to keep its flight true. THe M$ was designed to incorporate a flaw found in the original CAR and Stoners of the 60's.. The bullet tends to tumble on impact. SO youaren't getting hit witha 5.56, youare getting hit with the full length of the projectile, tumbling through the target! M$ does a hell of lot of damage 100 meters plus
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BBHSmash
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 02.06.2015, 11:15
Location: San Diego, California

12.04.2021, 23:12

At close range, the AK will reign supreme. That's just the nature of the larger caliber bullet. Its at mid to long range where the M-4 will shine. At range the M-4 is far more accurate, and the damage and penetration drop off is minimal. However, due to the short barrel length of 14.5 inches, the M-4 does struggle somewhat with ballistic performance. That's why other AR-15 style and similar caliber rifles like the HK-416 and AK-74 offer more damage; its because they have a longer barrel at around 16.5 inches allowing for more powder burn to improve performance. That's also why the m-16 was so good at range and able to reliably kill at even 600meters, its the 20 inch barrel, but that length made it rather unwieldy in CQB environments.

Mark404
 
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