Poll about the current headshot multiplier (3x)

Here you can discuss the game in general and provide us your opinion or feedback on the project.

Is the 3x headshot multiplier too high?

Yes.
 
55% (31)
Yes, but only for some classes (classes being SMG, AR, DMR, Pistol...)
 
14% (8)
No.
 
30% (17)
 
Total votes : 56

07.03.2019, 14:37

Does the community think it is too high, or not?

I think it is way too high, because you die instantly in most firefights simply because your opponent hit you in the head by accident
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Kube
 
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07.03.2019, 14:44

+1 messages will be deleted with no warning.

You can re-vote if you change your opinion.

Account creation date will be checked, don't create new accounts for this poll.

For now it's not an official poll (just an idea Kube had), but if there's enough discussion and votes, then it could become one.
Last edited by Chandrian on 07.03.2019, 14:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Chandrian
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09.03.2019, 13:46

I agree and find it too high as well.

Survariums gameplay/gaming style is already heavily focused on "farming" modus.


Just f.ex. on London one guy unaimed 3 Players instantly in the head. He sat in front of them and they were not lined up closely or such.

Thats more than 1,5min + 1,5min (45 sec respawning plus QUICK travelling) in Research Modus taken away for one [Maybe yours?] Team by "accident".
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SportR Ciri Julia
 
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09.03.2019, 22:21

Chandrian:+1 messages will be deleted with no warning.


@Da_Capo
Last edited by Kube on 09.03.2019, 22:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Kube
 
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10.03.2019, 16:58

da_capo:...lack of recoil or easy to control the recoil and no penalty when moving/running r the issues.


We had had low recoil (and headshot Multiplier x2) before over the years several times.

Now with x3 dmg its a new and different Scenario, in my opinion.
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SportR Ciri Julia
 
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10.03.2019, 21:58

I think its too high, there is no real "fighting" because you die so fast, especially if its a headshot, and i think that you generally die too fast. Raise the differences in armour types again, make heavy armour protect more and slower, and make light armour exclusively keep this current stats points of fast dying but run fast instead. This was fun before (1,5-2,5 years ago?), when it was more diversive gameplay with different types of armour giving actual benefits and disadvantages appart from just reputation, xp and pockets today.
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Shroomcar
 
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12.03.2019, 18:15

SportR Ciri Julia:

We had had low recoil (and headshot Multiplier x2) before over the years several times.

Now with x3 dmg its a new and different Scenario, in my opinion.

Julia decreasing multiplier is surgical solution, better then what we have now but still its surgical. as I said many times in the past, dying fast is not the real issue. it should be like this, 2 3 4 bullets should be enough to kill...the fact is, all damn weapons, especially snipers r to easy to control. way to easy...adding penalties when moving/running in terms of recoil and dispersion is a must. game play would turn into a matter of skill.
another issue is fast aiming.
then another issue is scaling when aiming through scopes
anyway, doesnt really matter since most players dont seem to see the real problem here. and even if they see it, they still act in opposition to what they believe during matches. so yes, this game is bound to stay arcade forever.
even Kube doesnt seem to realize that multiplier is not the real issue here
anyway

cheers
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da_capo
 
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12.03.2019, 19:06

da_capo:dying fast is not the real issue. it should be like this, 2 3 4 bullets should be enough to kill...the fact is, all damn weapons, especially snipers r to easy to control. way to easy...adding penalties when moving/running in terms of recoil and dispersion is a must. game play would turn into a matter of skill.

But, as Kube said, often a deadly headshot happens accidentally. Neither because of a well aimed shot from a skilled player, nor because aiming is too easy. So the problem here is that killing people has more to do with luck than with aiming in general. The "easy" aiming (regarding recoil, dispersion, etc.) is IMO more or less compensated by the game's speed. That's why aiming at the head of a player is still quite a challenge.

And if there was great bullet dispersion and more recoil and what ever, the problem would still be there. Because for example the recoil will eventually shift your gun's barrel to the perfect direction to hit the enemy's head :)

Yet I agree with you that simply reducing the headshot damage would be a surgical solution (if I interprete that correctly). But it would be a reaaaally quickly realized solution! To find a more "holistic" solution, I think making weapon handling more difficult isnt enough. My guess is that the speed of the game is the cause of these many lucky headshots. So: Make aiming harder AND make game play slower AND find a better health/damage model ;) ;) ;) Can't possibly take longer than three years or so.
Last edited by jule on 12.03.2019, 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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12.03.2019, 19:49

jule:
But, as Kube said, often a deadly headshot happens accidentally. Neither because of a well aimed shot from a skilled player, nor because aiming is too easy. So the problem here is that killing people has more to do with luck than with aiming in general. The "easy" aiming (regarding recoil, dispersion, etc.) is IMO more or less compensated by the game's speed. That's why aiming at the head of a player is still quite a challenge.


no, HS happen because recoil is almost nonexistent + there is no penalties when moving/turning. its just enough to aim and one bullet will surely hit the head no matter ADAD. the difference between a skilled player and a noob is not aiming. its just about map knowledge, reaction and delay.
penalties will fix every issue with multiplier, trust me. if u really wanna see what lack of penalties means, just look for someone using smg in light armor. HS/Kills ration is sometimes more then 0.6 7 and this is insane. its clear proof is not a matter of damage multiplier but lack of penalties.
this is what it means: https://survarium.pro/matches/12938519
look at player KhaymanG and see results. 21 HS out of 39 kills. its more then 0.7 HS/kills ratio, only because hes using using smg. compare this with every other player in that match. pick up another player using smg and situation stays the same.
same applies to every other player.
as I said, damage multiplies its not the issue, not the slightest...lack of penalties r the issues here
cheers
Last edited by da_capo on 12.03.2019, 19:52, edited 4 times in total.
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da_capo
 
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12.03.2019, 21:16

da_capo:if u really wanna see what lack of penalties means, just look for someone using smg in light armor. HS/Kills ration is sometimes more then 0.6 7 and this is insane. its clear proof is not a matter of damage multiplier but lack of penalties.

How is this a proof for anything? It is your opinion / point of view.

What does SMG + light armor result in? It results in quicker movements. And when I say that the game's speed is the problem, then your example actually supports my statement. I think you actually agree with me so far(?). But now I think these quick movements help the player to just spray bullets roughly into the direction of an enemy and without any further aiming - because of recoil etc. - chances are good that one or two bullets hit the head. No precise shooting needed.
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jule
 
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13.03.2019, 05:57

jule:
How is this a proof for anything? It is your opinion / point of view.

What does SMG + light armor result in? It results in quicker movements. And when I say that the game's speed is the problem, then your example actually supports my statement. I think you actually agree with me so far(?). But now I think these quick movements help the player to just spray bullets roughly into the direction of an enemy and without any further aiming - because of recoil etc. - chances are good that one or two bullets hit the head. No precise shooting needed.

yes, exactly, speed plays a major role. u didnt really understand my point though. I went to the extreme with the HS case. Im gonna detail the case differently.
like u said, speed in relation with lack of recoil (or easy to control recoil) + instant aiming + no penalties when speeding or ADAD result in instant deaths. this is because no matter what u do, considering all aspects written above, ur bullets will ALWAYS hit the target. idea is, if u consider adding penalties, u should miss most bullets if u just spray at the target - and this is not the case here. thats why damage multiplier has nothing to do with multiplier per se. 2 3 bullets should be enough to kill enemy as long as u add skill to game play and skill means penalties. like I said many many many times before: u should get accurate aiming if u stand still and burst fire. every movement or turning of body should affect aiming. speed should affect aiming, aiming time should be considered etc etc. I honestly dont understand how can u turn 180 degrees and instantly shoot and kill enemies...the HS example is an extreme case where lack of penalties increases chance of HS by a LOT. apart from arcade games, there is simply no other game with such high HS/kills ratio - and I mean none. 0.6 7 8 HS/kills ratio is insane. same example stands for body shots also: lack of penalties increases chances to hit the target...its actually impossible to miss target and this results in instant kills.
so its not an issue with damage multiplier but the lack of penalties
Last edited by da_capo on 13.03.2019, 07:42, edited 2 times in total.
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da_capo
 
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13.03.2019, 12:39

The movement in this game is a whole different can of worms, and people will have all kinds of different opinions on that, BUT with the current movement/aiming system the headshot damage reduction would be the easiest and fastest change to do to make the gameplay much better.

Skilled players WILL hit 6 bullets to the head in a row if that is what it takes to kill someone, and making aiming considerably harder while moving that it is currently would just encourage camping/sniping and it would have a big impact on the pace of the game and i personally would find a slower play style boring.

In the current version with the most used weapon based on my experience is the AK-12. With the current headshot multiplier ak instantly kills all headgear with less than 37 armor, and it deals 56,6 damage zubr helmet (the mask has less armor and hitting the face deals 62.2dmg).

If the headshot damage multiplier was 2 the lightest masks could take one hit to the head and they would die to the next bullet, headgear with an armor value of 40 (quite common on masks) would still get twoshot to the face, which would feel instant... but you could decide to wear heavy armor and it would require 3 bullets in the head to kill you. If this was the case, your skill would have a much greater role in 1v1 situations, and hitting consecutive headshots would be rewarded with fast TTK.
Last edited by Kube on 13.03.2019, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
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13.03.2019, 17:59

It's always been an awkward RNG to gunfights since the x3 multiplier was implemented. I have been really upset about it since. A dude half my skill can just hip-fire me with no intention of actually killing me and manage to get a head-shot and I'm down. It really doesn't suit the game's tempo to have head-shot multipliers this high. DEFINITELY not with recoil as low as it currently is.

With the introduction of the latest recoil change where guns have their own consistent recoil pattern, it's way too easy to counter-act it's recoil. I like that each gun has consistencies with recoil, but safe to say now it's way too consistent. Some deviation between the patterns would help make it challenging in a good way. I agree with adding moving penalties to dispersion and/or recoil. I'd increase overall weapon recoil to/and make bursting a more viable alternative and reduce head-shot multiplier to at least 2.5x.
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14.03.2019, 07:03

da_capo:
Julia decreasing multiplier is surgical solution, better then what we have now but still its surgical.


Yes, it is a SOLUTION
(and not problematic, gameplay wise anymore).


You go step by step.
And we dont discuss an overhaul of the System or such.
We are discussing the headshot multiplier.

Over 75% believe it should be reduced.
That is a good result in my view.
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SportR Ciri Julia
 
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14.03.2019, 22:46

Kube:Skilled players WILL hit 6 bullets to the head in a row if that is what it takes to kill someone, and making aiming considerably harder while moving that it is currently would just encourage camping/sniping and it would have a big impact on the pace of the game and i personally would find a slower play style boring.


Hey Kube u know how much I appreciate ur insights but u r wrong this time. I can definetly say u never played update 24 or earlier versions. Game play was a lot slower and much more interactive and gritty. It was a matter of skilled game play and tactical decisions. It was everything but boring man. Every match was a climax even with that slow speed. Eh, u just dont know man.
But everything considered, I still voted against 3x multiplier. It needs to be removed at this stage
Anyway
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da_capo
 
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14.03.2019, 23:10

da_capo:
Hey Kube u know how much I appreciate ur insights but u r wrong this time. I can definetly say u never played update 24 or earlier versions.

I started playing version 0.25 when shooting through walls still worked, and i can say that longing for those times will be a lost cause, since Vostok won't be rolling back 5 years worth of updates. Changing the headshot multiplier will make the game instantly more enjoyable to everyone, even if they dont realise it yet, and it will be easy to do.

Don't pull the "veteran" card on me. I've been in the game long enough to know pretty much everything there is to know.
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Kube
 
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15.03.2019, 02:57

Kube:
I started playing version 0.25 when shooting through walls still worked, and i can say that longing for those times will be a lost cause, since Vostok won't be rolling back 5 years worth of updates. Changing the headshot multiplier will make the game instantly more enjoyable to everyone, even if they dont realise it yet, and it will be easy to do.

Don't pull the "veteran" card on me. I've been in the game long enough to know pretty much everything there is to know.

True man to the core. Just dont come up with "slow means boring", if u care about ur ass. I was deeply into 25 or less versions of the game.
But yes at this stage u perfectly right about 3x multiplier.
Cheers man
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da_capo
 
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16.03.2019, 17:01

mr snowflake (da_capo) - you keep telling everyone that there is no recoil in this game - i did go to test it out - didnt hold mouse in hand and just pressed the mouse button so that i wouldnt compensate the recoil - and what do you know - there is actual recoil in the game - every weapon has it

you either dont realise that you are automaticly compensating the recoli with your mouse or you forgot that you have some macro installed

the real problem with recoil is that after first shot the bullets dont go where the gun is pointing during the recoil kick.
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s0mething
 
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16.03.2019, 20:27

s0mething:mr snowflake (da_capo) - you keep telling everyone that there is no recoil in this game - i did go to test it out - didnt hold mouse in hand and just pressed the mouse button so that i wouldnt compensate the recoil - and what do you know - there is actual recoil in the game - every weapon has it

you either dont realise that you are automaticly compensating the recoli with your mouse or you forgot that you have some macro installed

the real problem with recoil is that after first shot the bullets dont go where the gun is pointing during the recoil kick.

I said many many times, there is no recoil because it can be controlled vey easy by movinge the mouse and its even more easier because recoil patters can be automatically adjusted by learning it.
if someone doesnt agree with u about what u said, and I quote "u asked VG to stop niggers from playing the game" - it doesnt make him snowflake because its not personal.
Last edited by Chandrian on 16.03.2019, 21:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited to remove personal attacks
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da_capo
 
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16.03.2019, 21:05

da_capo wrote:it can be controlled vey easy by movinge the mouse and its even more easier because recoil patters can be automatically adjusted by learning it.

This is correct, but you should also have in mind that recoil increases exponentially with distance. What do I mean with this (most likely poorly worded) statement? That if you use something like Ash12 for close range then, sure, you can spray it very nicely to kill from up close. But try doing the same to an enemy that is very far away (for example from center stairs to base bridge windows on Chemical plant) and you'll have a hard time even if the gun has the best -recoil modifiers and -recoil modules. In fact, you'll have a hard time even hitting single fire shots at that distance with it, unless you shoot very slowly so it can recover from the recoil punch after each shot.

PS: I edited your message to delete any personal problems and accusations you have towards s0mething.
Last edited by Chandrian on 16.03.2019, 21:09, edited 3 times in total.
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