Cheaters

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21.05.2020, 23:29

this guy is constantly following the control and shoots from everywhere where we are spawn is coming and is constantly following iam

cooled from game hackers

https://imgur.com/a/IBvFIYl

Livanelli
 
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22.05.2020, 01:52

Jeorgeous_SVK wrote:

People like you shouldn´t be moderators. It´s a shame that you became one. I asked nicely if they can check him and you are being mean and sarcastic. That ´s how a moderator should behave? You have just shown how pathetic you are :)

This doesn't encourage anyone to engage with your request. Who do you expect to help you after this?
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trouble_every_day
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22.05.2020, 02:02

Jeorgeous_SVK wrote:snip

It's not like Doggo is not one of the top players of this game and we haven't played against him in equal skill hundreds (I can even say thousands at this point) of times. And you want someone to review the entire match (that probably not even you downloaded because you give no timestamps) of a well known player, why, because you checked sv.pro stats and thought that 18 hs out of 22 kills was a wee bit suspicious? And I can't allow myself to be mean and sarcastic with you because apparently you exclude me as a player for being a mod and should even be excluded from the mod teams for such things?

jule wrote:snip

I understand what you say, but this was a ranked match that we lost and by a pretty wide margin. If I have to try and carry my team to victory and that means stomping others, I will do it. If I see that it's an easily winnable match, I will go easier on the other team or try to use more normal weapons, unlike other streamers/top players who will stomp them no matter what because "it's an event, you need to farm these players in order to finish faster and gain more rep" (this match is from the event).

Livanelli wrote:this guy is constantly following the control and shoots from everywhere where we are spawn is coming and is constantly following iam

cooled from game hackers

https://imgur.com/a/IBvFIYl

2v2 match with 3 bots in each team. His ELO is much higher than yours, but it seems that he likes to play at times when there's lots of bots, because his Ranked ELO is pretty low (under 1000 is terrible).
If you come here, share a match full of bots with no timestamps and proceed to say "cooled from game hackers", then not many will bother watching the match replay for you. Because just like the other guy above, you most likely didn't even watch the replay yourself.
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Chandrian
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22.05.2020, 12:53

jule:
Probably because he is part of the community and not, for example, a community manager (those people who really have more important things to do than talking to ordinary players on unimportant english forums).

A certain individual does not give a shit or has been fired
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Kube
 
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23.05.2020, 01:23

Kube wrote:A certain individual does not give a shit or has been fired

"Stop spreading lies"
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trouble_every_day
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23.05.2020, 01:25

trouble_every_day:
"Stop spreading lies"

I don't see orange text to disprove me :)=
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Kube
 
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23.05.2020, 01:32

Orange text doesn't magically appear because you ask for it. Please return to the topic.
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trouble_every_day
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23.05.2020, 15:29

Lead Head:
I have played against Hand of Midas as well and occasionally watch his stream. Have never seen anything suspicious.

All it takes is just to watch his stream. The ones accusing him of cheats will always find an excuse - toggling cheats mid-game, ignoring something on purpose to make him look legit, etc. I've seen this over and over in Counter-Strike.

Well, thing is, cheats in survarium are overlayed over the game. You can record and stream game footage and have a wallhack on, and noone sees it. Back in the days when joewillburn claimed there are no cheats at some point in history, I downloaded one and used a fresh account to record a match by recording the game window and my screen at the same time. put both videos next to each other. I didn't kill or harm any players, I just walked around the map, hiding from them and obviously staring at people behind walls. Long story short, that thread and the fresh account don't exist anymore. Reported it to the support afterwards, might dig the report out if wished.
Tl;dr. Survariums cheats are overlay, you can stream with them and noone sees it.

Kube:
I doubt hand of midas has cheated, if he has then not when fighting against me.

Cheaptrix was an idiot who hackusated everyone and thought everyone was cheating so he downloaded cheats and got banned for using them :D

Games will always have cheaters. The important thing to do is to make them as annoying as possible to get working, and make sure multiple people aren't using them

Well, he might not always cheat, and he is definitely one of the better players. Might be using them occasionally. there are tons of videos about him doing cheat stuff like clearly snapping onto people and prefiring through solid walls like lazerhawk did. guess VG never bothered or see the evidence as not enough. Contrary to the proverb: Innocent until proven guilty, a while ago before Battleeye it was: "guilty until proven innocent" in Survarium. Everyone could've cheated, pros cheated, people didn't expect them, they got banned occasionally.
The support is also mediocre at best and I don't doubt that they wink some people through because of their status.
Like Lazerhawk. Or Maksim5489.
I dunno why, it might be pride. A lot of devs never admit they have issues with cheats or something else, so not banning some famous cheaters for cheating doesn't break illusion of a cheat-free game. And those do not exist.
Edit: Stuff like this is all over Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eci0darB1Wg
Inhuman reactions? that stupid sound radar you were banned for? Actual wallhack? A simple detection radar one of the VIP hacks had? Heck, I forgot what that one was called, but I remember it having a buttload of functions like detection spheres around mines/claymores and a simple warning if people approach you in a customizeable up to 360° circle around you.
And even if he has a very good headset and inhuman hearing, the game overwrites sound queues and the shooting in linked video overwrites the footsteps of the approaching enemy.
While I hardly doubt cheaters exist to the extent they did before Battleeye, I also know battleeye and there are ways to bypass it. There is not a single online PvP game, or a game in general without cheats and anyone who claims otherwise is a fool. As seen with Valorant. The devs did so much to kill cheats, what happened? Hours after release there were cheats.
Last edited by Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer on 23.05.2020, 15:40, edited 2 times in total.
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23.05.2020, 19:00

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:There is not a single online PvP game, or a game in general without cheats and anyone who claims otherwise is a fool.

There is no such thing as true security. There is only prevention. The goal is to make there be so much prevention, it's not worth it to risk the consequences of penetrating it.

If I go to YouTube right now, type "Survarium cheat 2020", order videos by upload date, I will see 5 videos in total (screenshot taken with Awesome Screenshot: Screen Video Recorder).

First video: Survarium - How to: minimap - 2020 04 13 - 17 05 27. This is very recent. It is one guy who's apparently recording his gameplay with what I think is ShadowPlay because he gets accused of cheating by JUNIOR_STRELOK (which is Viren's smurf, a thing that he admitted on the forum, so I'm not name-shaming here) and uploads the moment that he was accused for from real-time gameplay (because you can see the chat, which is not available in replays), indicating that the guy was seen on the minimap. Which is the same case as M4rk0's accusation.

Second video: #SURVARIUM/ клан #КІБОРГ / карантин так карантин. A stream of a player who has hundreds of tags in his video description to get better visibility, with many variants of the word "cheat" in English and Russian.

Third video: ESP Aimbot BattleEye Survarium. This video shows a REAL cheat that was WORKING. But it's a teeny tiny little world, because one of the comments on that video is by Sepul, who I know is one of the Support guys that deal with this kind of stuff. Pause the video at 0:05 and you'll see in the killfeed that the guy's nick is Закройте дыры BE Разработчики ("close BE holes, developers"). What is the obvious conclusion that we can draw after checking his profile and the aforementioned comment? That this guy was only able to play one match and got banned after that. If this is not a job well done, then I don't know what is.

Fourth video: SURVARIUM играем с читами и вх ("Survarium, playing with cheats and wallhack"). Obviously a sarcastic title that even uses a custom song created with Hand of Midas raging and insulting other players on his own stream.

Fifth video: Survarium cheats 2020. Another sarcastic title, judging by the video and the mediocre gameplay.

That's about it for public cheats, although I remember that when I checked this 2 months ago there were 2 more videos, from the same channel. It was a guy who was showing off a very sloppy overlay cheat in shooting range that wasn't even working and his plan was to get this cheat done by Sep 2020. I saw Sepul's comments in that video too, but if the one of a real cheat hasn't been taken down by VG, I doubt they took down that one, so maybe the user just deleted the videos or changed them to "unlisted".

But what about private cheats? The ones that people claim that the best clan in the game (ILS) use privately? How can one find a private cheat? Private means it can't be Googled and searched, it's a community where access is only for "family and friends". You can't just find and buy private cheats with the intention of blocking them, even if you're Support. If I don't need cheats to play against ILS in basically the same skill (they do have a huge ping advantage), maybe they don't need them either?

I for one, as a moderator in contact with Support, know that there has not been a single case of someone reporting with video proof a very good player who would have gotten banned for such proof. I mention this because of scenarios where you might think that someone is a decent player but knows how to hide the hack that he's using but that when watching him play you know that something is wrong and there are no public hacks available. This has not happened, ever, at least to my knowledge.

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:Like Lazerhawk. Or Maksim5489.

Lazerhawk was always suspicious to the community, no one ever defended him, and Leki was reporting him, constantly, until he got him banned on at least 3 accounts, so please at least not make up things by saying that people dismissed such reports about Lazerhawk, because the advanced Community Driven Replay Thread still exists and you can still dig such posts by typing "lazerhawk" in the search bar of that thread.

And if you do that, you'll also see me mentioning that although Maksim, old BARS clan leader, got banned, he was banned for match fixing, not for cheating.

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:Edit: Stuff like this is all over Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eci0darB1Wg

After that wall of text, let's expand it even more and get on with this video. Player is Hand of Midas. It's a short clip with 2 kills in it, first one is clear of doubt to be honest. So there remains 1 kill out of the whole match. And with one moment you cannot draw conclusions with just one match. Even the average player can have one strange moment in a match. Not to mention that this is a good player who's still active.

But let's speculate about this video in particular. I suppose that the intention was to display the flick out of range towards the left of the screen. He couldn't have heard the steps due to shots, that is correct, unless he has his volume set to ear-deafening value. So I agree that it couldn't have been thanks to sound.
And it couldn't have been thanks to the minimap either because there's no red dot on it, unless the replay is bugged (it's a bit slowed down and even 4 years later replays still have many synchronization bugs of all kind).

Was it thanks to communication? Maybe he was playing with someone in a squad and on teamspeak and that guy said "Midas, there's one guy behind the bus stop"? Or maybe not, so let's keep speculating.

So here's what I think that did not happen in the video. The flick is not perfect, he starts shooting when he's still aiming to the tree, so I think we can agree that at the very least this is not aimbot, right? So how could have he known, if even the sound radar that you mention was not bannable because no one proved it giving clear advantage in Survarium? Is the only possible reason some kind of wallhack or overlay on the screen like in the "Third video" of this post? In my honest opinion, no.

Here's my theory. This clip is from March of 2016. Back then Survarium did not have an FOV slider, which was implemented with 0.52a3 much later on, in 2018. So prior to 2018, vertical FOV was 65, which meant that at 1920x1080 horizontal FOV was 97. And because vertical FOV was locked to 65 it meant that the higher the resolution, the higher your horizontal FOV would be. There's proof of this, thanks to the internet. You have this post from Feb 2016 where one guy displays the insane fish-eye-view that you were able to achieve with 3 monitors combined together for a total resolution of 5760x1080. And you also have this Steam post, where Gamertech, who's an old admin, states that he has 110 FOV because of a higher resolution. So Hand of Midas having a higher FOV than the guy who's showing the replay would easily explain this kill.

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:I downloaded one and used a fresh account to record a match by recording the game window and my screen at the same time. put both videos next to each other. I didn't kill or harm any players, I just walked around the map, hiding from them and obviously staring at people behind walls.

Was this before BattlEye or after that?
Last edited by Chandrian on 23.05.2020, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Chandrian
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24.05.2020, 00:37

Well, youtube kinda dies as the platform to advertise cheats. I am certain that BE helps a lot, but I am also certain that there are hidden private VIP cheats for the game. Heck, I used to be in one of those hidden groups in a forum by a dude who developed a free cheat and then closed the group. You had to talk to him in person and pay money to enter the group, and then pay for the cheat. God I forgot who it was. Just remember his profile being a rubiks cube.
It is possible that a clan hired or has a dude who can code a working cheat. And then they just keep it for themself. There is a way to limit ones access to the cheat via an online check. Again, that one dude who wrote the premium cheat a long time ago had that.
You download the loader and it starts, but doesn't work if you don't meet certain criteria. As in getting the cheat for a time after buying it. it is possible that the clan cheats. And when someone gets banned, he gets cut off by the loader manually. Or something like that.
It isn't about whether or not they need them. If you could cheat, wouldn't you do it for fun? Or to know how it is? As said. A lot of pro gamers cheat. It isn't limited to noobs. Heck, CSGO pros cheat on lan tournaments. And they're pros who can destroy virtually anyone without cheats. I guess it's more about whether you can or not and not if you need them or not.
Survarium became a much cleaner space with BE than it was before. It was a cheat infested cesspool where everyone could cheat if he can hide it properly.
The support is just people, too. You do not everyone to the bone. They might be friends with someone or simply oversighting or ignoring proof. I do not know if the support changed, but a while ago it was pretty shoddy. Atleast the Russian part was just not good and biased.
Well, the Russian part of the forum wasn't as hostile to Lazerhawk as we were. I am still curious abouth why it took VG so goddamn long to finally ban him. The fact that you use the word "constantly" shows that he went away with it for a long time. And I ask you, how could this happen? He was obviously cheating and a lot of people reported him. It's not like he hid it. He blatantly cheated. I guess support friends or a lot of money kept him over water. I dunno.
I know that the first kill of Midas was "legit". Let's call it legit. But the second is impossible without any external knowledge. Sound-wise he could'nt hear the enemy. Survariums sound is not displayed on that range if one walks. If you crank the video up, you do not hear anything. He has to have a 4th-dimension hearing where he hears pings of other players through his router or something. A flick without visual or audio queues is highly suspicious. The only thing I would accept is a teammate behind him telling him: "Oi mate, behind you" but I doubt that a friend of him wouldn't kill the enemy.
Thing is, there were a loooot of videos by a guy named Corvus something about Midas. I used to report Midas for Lazerhawk-style prefires. He basically does the same thing. Over and over again. I can just assume that popularity ar the Russian part of the game might protect him if he cheats/ed.
Edit: Not Corvus, it's Raziel. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +survarium
A lot of videos with obvious cheat moments.
Like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bSOWlOGxs4
One might argue, "there is an enemy on his radar right where he kills the dude in tunnels at.... C I believe... Research point, you know. But one would be crazy trying to wallbang through multiple stone walls.
I do not know if he cheats or not. Maybe he is using that weird sound radar people used a while back. Which tracks sound you cannot hear but virtually exists and displays to you. It could be that explanation. I remember seeing one in action. basically reliable radar hack.

Well I just realized I should've read your entire post and not addressing parts of it, since I say the same you said for the most part.
While fish-eye surely would increase your FOV slightly, notice how he flicks one time by what I assume is a 120-130° where the enemy isn't presend. I think he assumed the enemy would engage him, which he didn't. he goes back assuming he will kill the player in the hut, and as soon as the guy behind him gets in the open, he again makes a over 90° flick. I hardly doubt it was possible to get an FOV of nearly, I dunno, 270°.
It was long before Battleeye. It was just a post made to prove joewillburn wrong, who in my opinion still isn't a good community manager managing-wise.
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Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer
 
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24.05.2020, 03:48

the video on research rudnya is legit for me.

even without a 270° fov, this kill is pretty ok. he just had to know that there is a player behind the busstop, which often is.
he looked there, and then turned to the dangerous enemy in the hut, and after he gets into cover versus that hut-guy he flicked to the busstop, where he awaits the enemy, so yeah thats pretty legit.

but the other video 4yo tarakanovsky, those are a little weird, atleast.
But still, i act same and prefire like this when im in the mood
midas is a strong player no doubt. but cheat? no. ive won many 1v1 against him, and won the rating matches.
he has a latency of 8-10 in ranked matches. thats his cheat, to live inside the serverroom. i usually have 50-100 and still get scores like him.

so far i have seen two obvious hackers, one video thats 4 years old. and another video quite recently, a low level noob on school, that was flicking and oneshotting people through the whole hallway with a sks, he got banned.
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OneThreeOneTwo
 
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24.05.2020, 14:05

OneThreeOneTwo wrote:he looked there, and then turned to the dangerous enemy in the hut, and after he gets into cover versus that hut-guy he flicked to the busstop, where he awaits the enemy, so yeah thats pretty legit.

That is actually a very good point: when you know that there's someone at a certain spot, you'll try to bait him out with shots or whatever, and that first flick and even the second one could be explained that way. If he knew in some way (by seeing him hide there or him killing someone else from there before), then he would be aware of that spot being a potential problem.

I also watched some of those 4 years olld tarakanovsky videos too. Lighting is screwed up xD There are some weird moments, but some seemed normal to me (like the situation where he kills the LMG guy through smoke because he knew the approximate position) and the shooting common spots through walls could be explained with the old penetration system, which was absurd.
Last edited by Chandrian on 24.05.2020, 14:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Chandrian
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24.05.2020, 15:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVHh73Ekg3Y
sample video iyice bakın
actual


there is a site where they are created can be taken from there vip
Last edited by Livanelli on 24.05.2020, 15:32, edited 2 times in total.

Livanelli
 
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24.05.2020, 15:35

Livanelli wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVHh73Ekg3Y
sample video iyice bakın
actual


there is a site where they are created can be taken from there vip

Read my post above, where I talk about this video. This player was able to play 1 match and was banned after it.

Third video: ESP Aimbot BattleEye Survarium. This video shows a REAL cheat that was WORKING. But it's a teeny tiny little world, because one of the comments on that video is by Sepul, who I know is one of the Support guys that deal with this kind of stuff. Pause the video at 0:05 and you'll see in the killfeed that the guy's nick is Закройте дыры BE Разработчики ("close BE holes, developers"). What is the obvious conclusion that we can draw after checking his profile and the aforementioned comment? That this guy was only able to play one match and got banned after that. If this is not a job well done, then I don't know what is.
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Chandrian
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24.05.2020, 16:29

what if they only use esp?


There are players who took 25 deaths in the match, where no one could get 8 deaths.


I am a good player, I have been playing for 6 years, but when there are good players in the opposing team, the people in the ranking, only 1 person gets 60-70 kills, nobody can play in both teams, I can play those people, I did not start yesterday, I opened a new account to play with my friend.


as I said in many beginners
there are no items on it but it takes 45 50 clays, hits wherever we come out.

I have been descriptive


thanks for your interest
Last edited by Livanelli on 24.05.2020, 16:31, edited 1 time in total.

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24.05.2020, 21:57

OneThreeOneTwo:
he has a latency of 8-10 in ranked matches. thats his cheat, to live inside the serverroom. i usually have 50-100 and still get scores like him.

so far i have seen two obvious hackers, one video thats 4 years old. and another video quite recently, a low level noob on school, that was flicking and oneshotting people through the whole hallway with a sks, he got banned.

Well, a latency difference of 100 is nothing if games netcode is fine. Sadly Survariums netcode is one of thw rost I've ever seen.
And sure, you can still kill a cheater. It's not like he is always winning, because he's still a human being.
I also know that prefiring works. I prefired quite a few kills myself. But if someone does it constantly and if he does it, there is always an enemy dead-on behind the walls, it is blatantly a wallhack. I am certain popularity plays a big role in this games Russian side. (Well, it's the biggest part of survariums community) and people who cheated or cheat occasionally receive a more loose overwatch by the support just because they're famous pros.

What also always made me laugh is survariums updates. It was an unspoken rule that when an update came out, I played better, or rather a lot of "good" players played worse. And I am not speaking about major gameplay changers, but those small 0.xx updates. it was very frequent where you saw some famous clans utterly being shred after updates at the time where cheats were openly acquireable.
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25.05.2020, 00:50

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:receive a more loose overwatch by the support just because they're famous pros.

Please don't use this imaginary excuse again. You have been here long enough to know that such things are against the terms of service.
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25.05.2020, 02:02

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:I also know that prefiring works. I prefired quite a few kills myself. But if someone does it constantly and if he does it, there is always an enemy dead-on behind the walls, it is blatantly a wallhack.

No.

I have seen demos of myself flicking perfectly onto someone's head through a wall multiple times. The key is the frequency of it, I mean I have played over 7k matches of Surva so it's bound to happen sometime.

The guys who do cheat, they do it repeatedly and irrationally a lot of times in a single match. That makes it really obvious. This does not.

Most reasonably good players flick onto people's bodies instinctively when they hear a sound cue. Every time I watch my own demos I realize I'll do it maybe 2 or 3 times per minute.

But what the cheating guys do is totally different. They blatantly track through walls and lock on. Sequentially like this without hesitation or failure, it's not naturally occuring. I see plenty of attempts to hack in a subtle way in games like CS and when pushed they become repeatedly obvious. And I don't see this at the top level in Surva. Most cheaters will still suck. If someone is good at the game, he doesn't need to cheat.
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Chandrian
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25.05.2020, 19:12

Again, I use Lazerhawk as my strawman. Why did it take as long as it did to ban him? As far as I remember he blatantly cheated for months, if not a year or more.
@Chandrian Sure, it happens. And as you said it is about frequency. There are a lot of people playing the game, yet there are only a few where it happens more frequently. Without them actually do it purposefully more frequently. To be clear. The amount of tries should be exponentially higher than the successes and if the successes grow, the tries skyrocket. Obviously. if you wallbang more, you are bound to hit people than if you never wallbang. But the amount of tries grow at a much faster rate. But for some people who a lot of assume cheat, this isn't happening at a normal ratio.
The argument: "if someone is good, he doesn't need to cheat" isn't really a good one. Obviously disproven by pros in various games cheating. They are pros, they win tournaments, yet they still cheat.
Last edited by trouble_every_day on 25.05.2020, 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer
 
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25.05.2020, 22:09

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:Obviously disproven by pros in various games cheating. They are pros, they win tournaments, yet they still cheat.

I just knew that you were going to nitpick on this xD They do this because the stakes are too high and there are money prizes. What's the gain in Survarium? Personal ego of crushing worse players than you or legit players who would be better than you?
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