Why is idleness penalty still broken?

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09.07.2019, 17:16

It's been broken since that event had the st patricks day weapons that introduced search and destroy.
If you die too much or play certain objectives, you get penalized.

Slockum
 
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09.07.2019, 17:59

Your negativity is all over the place, every message I read posted by you indicates that you maybe need to take a break from this game.

Anyway. What solution do you propose to "fix" the way the game calculates if you're active or not? It's not "broken" since the Saint Patrick's day event because it's been like this always.
- can't be input based (ASWD or left mouse button) because it's possible to make macros that do just that.
- can't be based on giving you points for just planting stuff like mines or ammo boxes because it could be abused. Could be based on destroying such things and that's planned.
- can't be based on giving you points by just standing on A or B sites because there's no system like that in the game unless you'd use something like when capturing a research unit.
- could be based on giving you points for spotting the artifact, but your examples include not finding the enemy because others kill them. Same goes for assists. There's no enemy spotting system in the game either.

By the way, if you're dying while moving, the timer will reset. If you think this isn't working correctly, share match ids of this so Support can check it.
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Chandrian
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13.07.2019, 01:17

Crab Seer: I keep getting penalised for inactivity because I suck at search and destroy
Crab Seer: Like I'm running around playing
Crab Seer: how tf does the game think I'm inactive
Reals7eelGamer: the inactivity penalty really shouldnt be a thing unless the player doesnt MOVE for 3 minutes lmao
Crab Seer: I think it wars at 3 and penalises at 5
Crab Seer: Like srry my teamates are playing slow and I got sshot off spawn

Slockum
 
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13.07.2019, 10:09

Crab Seer played and won this match right before you posted the message. He had 0 score, 0 kills and 9 deaths.

Once again, you need to propose solutions having in mind what is written in my previous message.
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Chandrian
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13.07.2019, 14:19

Chandrian:Once again, you need to propose solutions having in mind what is written in my previous message.

Let me pour my negativity over this place as well now: Whether or not you make suggestions or even (and this is actually really not the players' job) propose complete "solutions": It doesn't matter anyway. Nobody cares. So it is ridicoulus to tell people here that they need to do that rather than just complaining and recalling known problems. What you do is basically a smart and friendly way to say people they should just shut up.

One year ago* I wrote that VG could implement a dialog window which pops up when the game thinks that the player is inactive. The player would need to confirm he is still active by interacting with the window (pressing a button, entering some text, what ever).

Well did I get feedback? No. Did VG read it? Probably not. Was something like that implemented? Hell, of course not! Does VG care in any way about this problem? Who knows..


* viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15744&p=302758#p302758
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16476#p309700
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jule
 
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13.07.2019, 15:11

jule wrote:Let me pour my negativity over this place

If someone describes a problem and proposes a solution, the chance of it geting fixed/implemented will be higher, but it's for the developer to decide, based on priority and, in this case, whether the inactivity penalty is an actual issue right now or if it affects enough users.

When giving feedback, it needs to be done in a constructive manner. Is "AKM is trash" the same as "AKM recoil seems to have an issue regarding mouse relocation post-spray"? No, it isn't, but while you tried doing so in a constructive manner, Slockhum didn't, even after I presented him with examples of solutions that are not possible.

Your idea is simple, which is bad, as it's good for those who make macros to be able to get points while they go AFK. Such a dialog would pop-up at a given time (between 3 and 5 minutes of being inactive) and the box would be in a given place and the button to press or the text to enter would be the same. This is the perfect recipe to create a macro to avoid it. Unless some kind of complex-captcha-annoying-text-window is implemented, which I haven't seen in other games by the way, so it would be a first for VG, I don't see this getting implemented either.

People who go 0-9 and 0 score in Search & Destroy in the winning team should untick that mode, instead of complaining about inactivity penalty for basically doing nothing. The team won without you, you didn't neutralize the artifact, you didn't get assists, you didn't help in any way [that the system can recognize].
Last edited by Chandrian on 13.07.2019, 15:33, edited 3 times in total.
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Chandrian
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13.07.2019, 15:42

Again, your solution is for us to shut the hell up.
You're right, since people keep getting inactivity during search and destroy, they just shouldn't play it.
In fact, if they suck at the game at all, they shouldn't play it.

It's a shame they just aren't as good as your holiness, if they were, maybe they'd get paid in gold too.

Slockum
 
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13.07.2019, 17:42

Chandrian:
If someone describes a problem and proposes a solution, the chance of it geting fixed/implemented will be higher, but it's for the developer to decide, based on priority and, in this case, whether the inactivity penalty is an actual issue right now or if it affects enough users.

Reasonable point. But how can the Devs know whether an issue affects enough users? As long as there is no proper voting system (for game problems as well as for suggested solutions) people will need to do exactly what Slockum did. Just mentioning that this problem is relevant to them. I for one am happy about everyone who just writes something like "+1" or making a new thread with just one sentence saying that he also thinks that a certain issue is relevant. No need to give suggestions about possible solutions, if you just want to communicate that something is important to you, or that you agree on somebody else's statement.

Chandrian:
People who go 0-9 and 0 score in Search & Destroy in the winning team should untick that mode, instead of complaining about inactivity penalty for basically doing nothing. The team won without you, you didn't neutralize the artifact, you didn't get assists, you didn't help in any way [that the system can recognize].

Sorry, but I need to disagree. What you say is totally reasonable, but does not apply to what I actually experience in Survarium.

1. S&D can be very tough for me. Making zero or only one kill in a complete match does happen to me. And trust me I do not do this on purpose. Sometimes I just magically become fully inable to compete with the enemies. May the reason for this stay undiscovered until the end of all days but it is true! Though, when discussing it I'd always say it is because of bad balancing + synchronization issues. Anyway, this IS happening and being considered inactive in such cases just feels unjust and humiliating.

2. Going AFK on purpose and just being not a good player are two distinct things and should be handled differently! The AFK detection is not the right tool to punish players that "didn't help their team enough" or spuriously chose to play S&D (how dare these noobs..!! ^^). If you don't help your team you are already punished by having not much fun and not gaining much silver/exp. Also if a matchmaking driven game detects balancing issues, it is not the right decision to just punish noobies until they stop playing. The right thing would be to work on a better balancing.

Chandrian:Your idea is simple [...]

Indeed my suggestion is rather pragmatic than being a perfect one. But please let us elaborate what the actual problem looks like. AFK players are quite a big issue in Survarium. But why? Who are these players (and I am only talking about the big majority of AFKers not each and every minority)? Are they evil little pricks that employ sophisticated 24/7 running computer systems that automatically start Survarium, press "play", use hardcore artificial intelligence stuff to trick the inactivity detection to finally farm precious Survarium in-game currency that they can sell on the black market? No! As long as Survarium doesn't offer the ability to generate Bitcoins or something, this is unlikey. The problematic majority of AFKers are people that are just rage quitting the game after 2 minutes, because of bad balancing. And I don't think that after pressing alt+f4 they think "oh wait, I must not forget to quickly start my awesome home-brewed macro script that cheats Survarium so that I still get a reward for my 3 kills". No they will just be happy about not playing anymore.

tl;dr If the game does not give you rewards for less than ~50 points then why would anyone bother to employ macros that cheat the inactivity detecion?

Better have a system that doesn't detect every specialized bad guy, than having a system which makes false positives and punishes innocent people.
Last edited by jule on 13.07.2019, 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
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jule
 
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13.07.2019, 17:58

I agree with jule.
+1 ;)
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Tanatloc
 
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13.07.2019, 19:22

Jule is right...
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RaiD2606
 
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13.07.2019, 20:10

jule wrote:But how can the Devs know whether an issue affects enough users?

Devs have their own internal stats, just like the ones I'll mention below this message.
jule wrote:AFK players are quite a big issue in Survarium.

jule wrote:The problematic majority of AFKers are people that are just rage quitting the game after 2 minutes, because of bad balancing.

Since VG introduced the penalties for leaving a match, % of leavers reduced from 6.2% to less than 3%. % of leavers is now actually lower than before 0.56c (the one when VG removed match participation costs): <3% vs 4.6%. And during 0.55c - 0.56b (no penalties for leaving and no match participation costs) there were 5.65% leavers, peaking at over 6% during the event at the time.
jule wrote:farm precious Survarium in-game currency that they can sell on the black market? No! As long as Survarium doesn't offer the ability to generate Bitcoins or something, this is unlikey.

This is not what happens in reality, a game doesn't need to have a black market or an auction house to incentivize the user to use a macro. It takes a long time to level up and farm Silver in Survarium and I can see someone wanting to do this too (in fact people go AFK in PvE a lot, where there are no penalties), even more so after the match costs were removed (unless you activate boosters).
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Chandrian
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17.07.2019, 12:29

Chandrian:
Devs have their own internal stats, just like the ones I'll mention below this message.


Since VG introduced the penalties for leaving a match, % of leavers reduced from 6.2% to less than 3%. % of leavers is now actually lower than before 0.56c (the one when VG removed match participation costs): <3% vs 4.6%. And during 0.55c - 0.56b (no penalties for leaving and no match participation costs) there were 5.65% leavers, peaking at over 6% during the event at the time.

This is not what happens in reality, a game doesn't need to have a black market or an auction house to incentivize the user to use a macro. It takes a long time to level up and farm Silver in Survarium and I can see someone wanting to do this too (in fact people go AFK in PvE a lot, where there are no penalties), even more so after the match costs were removed (unless you activate boosters).

That shift in percentage is really, really minuscule - To the point where it really doesn't matter. As another player said people aren't marcoing for silver they're AFK because of some stuff in real life or because they rage due to the game sucking ass.

That drop in AFKers isn't your system working, it's people straight up learning that this game isn't worth playing.
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Sleeves
 
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18.07.2019, 07:26

Statistics... You can do them as you want and interpret as you want. If they give you good result. That's other thing.
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Tanatloc
 
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18.07.2019, 19:43

Chandrian:Your idea is simple, which is bad, as it's good for those who make macros to be able to get points while they go AFK. Such a dialog would pop-up at a given time (between 3 and 5 minutes of being inactive) and the box would be in a given place and the button to press or the text to enter would be the same. This is the perfect recipe to create a macro to avoid it. Unless some kind of complex-captcha-annoying-text-window is implemented, which I haven't seen in other games by the way, so it would be a first for VG, I don't see this getting implemented either.


But won't the best anticheat in the world, battleye, detect this macro?

Verlagen
 
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20.07.2019, 11:29

Regenval:

But won't the best anticheat in the world, battleye, detect this macro?

It seems, that you don't understand how Battle Eye is working.
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Tanatloc
 
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20.07.2019, 17:00

Tanatloc:
It seems, that you don't understand how Battle Eye is working.


r/wooosh

Verlagen
 
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20.07.2019, 17:56

Today was the first time my connection broke while playing and I received penalty (match 13591280). There should be some stats to show that I never quited from match and also some acumilation like two matches ina a row/day/something.

This way I feel punished two times, by my ISP and by game.
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RaiD2606
 
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20.07.2019, 21:49

Upgrade to 0.18, Problem Solved.
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Jäeger
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21.07.2019, 01:37

Jäeger:Upgrade to 0.18, Problem Solved.

what do you mean?
Game gets updated by steam when it needs to.
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RaiD2606
 
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21.07.2019, 10:01

He meant downgrade.
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Tanatloc
 
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