Bans for Using Third-Party Software

Discussion of the latest news and events related to Survarium.

17.04.2019, 15:39

da_capo wrote:its well known that high ping players have a distinct advantage. server adjusts a bit late their actions making them unpredictable. when shooting a high pinger, bullets seem to NOT register because high delay and server adjustments place them in a different spot then the one u shoot at. furthermore, server adjustments result in sudden turns left/right like bouncing against a rubber wall, or impossible change of direction - monkey movements etc etc. the higher the ping, the more bullets u need to bring a high ping player down and thats why they seem to be "immortals".
while I do agree that quality game play for high ping players is bad, they still do have a distinct advantage over other players that IMO count to 70 75% of their overall result at the end of the match
cheers

Go find all those posts of Ivan and dima discussing all of this. People even tried providing video proof and everything was refuted as non-substantial.
da_capo wrote:man, please a bit more careful one stating something like this. Sonic Radar is forbidden and players using it r perma banned. they were banned in past for using SR. I know about several instances. VG policy about SR is clear and not debatable. a bit of research before man coz its dangerous
kisses

https://forum.survarium.com/ru/viewtopi ... 8#p1272288
https://forum.survarium.com/ru/viewtopi ... 9#p1272299
Posted by FANTOM on 9th of April.
Last edited by Chandrian on 17.04.2019, 15:54, edited 3 times in total.
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Chandrian
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17.04.2019, 16:21

Chandrian:
...

I know what FANTOM said and I know for sure they will perma bann everyone using SR as long as video proof is provided. one player was banned because I provided video proof. anyway its a bit contradictory what FANTOM said in relation with what happened in the past,
on the second issue, u might need to trust my word. I had 2 long discussion here with Ivan about high ping players. most of what I said r his words, including the fact that nothing can be done to avoid them.
Ivan actually can confirm those issues if he sees the post


btw, there r LOTS AND LOTS of topics about high ping and how it affects games.
just read second paragraph from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

this is the paragraph:
"In some first-person shooter games, a high ping may cause the player to unintentionally gain unfair advantages, such as disappearing from one location and instantaneously reappearing in another, simulating the effect of teleportation, thus making it hard for other players to judge their character's position and subsequently making the player much more difficult to target. To counter this, many game servers automatically kick players with a ping higher than average. Conversely, a high ping can make it very difficult for the player to play the game due to negative effects occurring, making it difficult for the player to track other players and even move their character."

its exactly what I said, including positives and negatives. high ping players have a huge advantage over other players but bad quality game play

cheers
Last edited by Chandrian on 17.04.2019, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: double-posting
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da_capo
 
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17.04.2019, 17:19

I had 2 long discussion here with Ivan about high ping players. most of what I said r his words

[citation needed]
What I always said on this topic is:
- ping of another player can not affect your hit detection
- effect of high ping on score is negative - on average high-ping players receive smaller score

just read second paragraph from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

"This article needs additional citations for verification. (April 2011)"
"This article possibly contains original research. (December 2008)"

And if you really want to use this page (despite its poor quality) then read this paragraph:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Rewind_time
To a certain level it does correctly describes possible effects from high ping in Survarium.
TL;DR:
- for small time period high-ping players may kill other players behind cover
- shots made by player after he has been killed on server but is not yet aware of this will not be registered
da_capo wrote:its exactly what I said, including positives and negatives. high ping players have a huge advantage over other players but bad quality game play

Again, source? I asked for this before and I ask for this again - please provide example of such situation, e.g. video.
Despite such "widespread" issue so far I've only seen 2 (two) cases where ping actually had actual effect. And only in one case one of players had high ping.

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17.04.2019, 18:02

ivan_vg:
What I always said on this topic is:
- ping of another player can not affect your hit detection


omg man I think we went through this 100 times already. ofc ping doesnt affect hit detection as long as u can aim at the bloody high ping target. I found it almost impossible to aim at a 200 250 + ping target when it bounces back and fourth like a crazy rabbit, doing impossible sudden change or direction, while shooting back at you. this is because server adjusts data a bit late and on the fly in his case but I only see end results on screen - witch is unnatural + the fact that u need to see the high pinger first to even have a chance of shooting at him. how can u even see him if hes position is always corrected by server, resulting in weird patterns?!?!??! and how the hell r u suppose the fight back at a high pinger when u get damage even without seeing him???!!!!!!!!! answer THAT
ivan_vg:
And if you really want to use this page (despite its poor quality) then read this paragraph:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Rewind_time

this is exactly what I said but a bit more into detail and not as exaggerated as I did

idea is simple. delay and high ping in Survarium r ok considering the circumstances and u and ur team deserve a medal for that. REALLY. the only real issue is that most fight happens around corners, where both very low and very high ping players have distinct advantages. 80 90% of fights happens around corner...in open area still high ping have a distinct advantage because u cant aim at the bloody rabbit and even if u get into cover u still receive damage.

how can I provide u a situation like that??!! its insane what u r asking. I need to study almost frame by frame a case, while considering delay, damage hitboxes and all that. u actually pasted that link that shows the situation, what else do u need?? more website?? professional ones??? all of the will say the same thing

argue is about hit detection vs how high ping affects game play. and while u r right about hit detection, IT CANNOT BE APPLIED IN MATCHES BECAUSE OF FIGHTS AROUND CORNERS AND THE FACT THAT U CANNOT AIM AT HIGH PING PLAYERS.
this is what @ike07 is describing together with all of us

and THERE IS NOTHING NOBODY CAN DO ABOUT IT

lets end this damn subject
cheers
Last edited by da_capo on 17.04.2019, 18:04, edited 1 time in total.
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18.04.2019, 06:36

@ da_capo

Yesterday i wrote a long text here, after a match vs near unkillable high ping player on EU server (my ping was 20, his ping was 400).
Explaining always the same, shooting him without damage regitration when he was running, and the killcam showing that i was firing 10 meters next too his real position...
Always seing him really later than him when he was waiting in a corner.
And his bullets following me after i had turning after a corner, but from his side i was dead before turning to cover me...

Then i read and read on the net about this.
And i discovered that all this is knowed and is only the result of the developpers choice.

They have 2 solutions :
- No ping (or lag) compensation and high ping players can't play, like it was in fps games in the old good times.
- Ping compensation and high ping players have a big advantage vs low ping players, especially when they wait in a corner.

All this explain why when i play on RU server, it's easier for me because i've a higher ping.

So, it's my last post about this, because i think that devs know all this, but they will never admit it.
Last edited by ike07 on 18.04.2019, 06:51, edited 2 times in total.
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18.04.2019, 13:14

ike07:@ da_capo

- Ping compensation and high ping players have a big advantage vs low ping players, especially when they wait in a corner.

All this explain why when i play on RU server, it's easier for me because i've a higher ping.



first note its not exactly true. as far as I know, very low delay players have a distinct advantage over others around corners just because they see the enemy first. the issue with high ping players around corners is that they see enemy first because server adjusts their position allowing them the see enemy first - before enemy can react. it is a big difference and I hope Im not mistaken. I normally take damage around corners from high ping players before they "teleport" into view - or makes a sudden change of direction into view - for a split second and even if I see them, its hard to proper aim at them, because of "monkey" moves

and yes, I reached top rank, but at level 4, I gave up playing on european server only because of high ping players. I was not able to win a single match with high ping players in play. thats why I advised u to play russian server only. I was stuck 3 days at level 4, not able to go up in level. the moment I played russian server only, I started winning immediately

cheers
Last edited by da_capo on 18.04.2019, 13:17, edited 3 times in total.
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18.04.2019, 13:52

As a player from Europe, I can confirm that my game runs smoother on RU server. Dunno the reason but it has always been like that. Playing on EU server is not an option for me.
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18.04.2019, 19:28

@ da_capo

I said the same as you, or i think that i said the same.

My english is a little.... litlle XD
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19.04.2019, 14:02

ike07 wrote:Explaining always the same, shooting him without damage regitration when he was running, and the killcam showing that i was firing 10 meters next too his real position...

This is impossible. Maximum distance would be around 2-3 meters AND this is only killcam artefact - killcam shows situation using your killer point of view and that includes any delays.
ike07 wrote:Always seing him really later than him when he was waiting in a corner.

This is impossible. In such situation you will have time advantage equal to his ping.
ike07 wrote:And his bullets following me after i had turning after a corner, but from his side i was dead before turning to cover me...

This is possible but so far I've only seen such situation once. Despite that people are claiming that this happens all of the time. And reverse is also true - if you're coming from behind a cover you will get advantage equal to his ping - he won't be able to see you until he receives information that you've come from behind a cover.

Anyway, I personally don't see a point in continuing this discussion unless there will be some sort of evidence (e.g. video) that support any of these claims.

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19.04.2019, 17:41

Me I would like someone explain to me why when I shoot someone I have a red cross giving information that I kill him and reality is me who die? And when you see the kill can the guy still have % of life.
Why I get red cross that the guy is dead but in reality it is some else from the team who kill him?
Why when I hit a player who kill me on kill cam you can see that he still have 100% of life?

There is only one explanation the time on both side is different. I always have notice that in Survarium but now it is worst than in the past.
Last edited by William-g on 19.04.2019, 17:42, edited 2 times in total.
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20.04.2019, 07:25

Yes, and why when you hit an ennemy by melee and you see a grey cross, and he kill you, you die and on killcam he have 100% of life.
Grey cross in melee = 0% of damage ?
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20.04.2019, 10:56

ike07:Yes, and why when you hit an ennemy by melee and you see a grey cross, and he kill you, you die and on killcam he have 100% of life.
Grey cross in melee = 0% of damage ?

I wish I know the answer for this question. it can be easily seen in killcam. in almost all cases, when crossfire happens and u die instantly, enemy has 100 health in killcam. this is new addition, never seen before. it can be easily shown if u can record one match. it happens in 90 % of cases. really weird...when asking if he got any damage, enemy says NO
Last edited by da_capo on 20.04.2019, 10:56, edited 1 time in total.
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20.04.2019, 13:16

May I say how incredible lazy and unfair this is on VGs part?

You code a game in a way graphics can be tweaked through non-forbidden ways and then just ban people for using it. And you even allow some third-party graphics stuff like that one colour-filter people used.
I mean... Should we fear to get banned for having a bad PC now? If I would have a bad PC; I'd tweak my game setting in my Nvidia control panel. And VG bans me for that?

VG is failing at doing things right and bandaids it by punishing people. Fix your game and remove these options instead of lazily bandaiding the game. You managed to get rid of cheats with battleeye. I mean, sure, it was easy. Battleeye itself did all the work. Do it with your engine now.
Thanks.

P.S. Didn't play for a while and didn't use any of that stuff, wasn't banned for it.
Last edited by Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer on 20.04.2019, 13:17, edited 1 time in total.
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20.04.2019, 14:40

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:May I say how incredible lazy and unfair this is on VGs part?

You code a game in a way graphics can be tweaked through non-forbidden ways and then just ban people for using it. And you even allow some third-party graphics stuff like that one colour-filter people used.
I mean... Should we fear to get banned for having a bad PC now? If I would have a bad PC; I'd tweak my game setting in my Nvidia control panel. And VG bans me for that?

VG is failing at doing things right and bandaids it by punishing people. Fix your game and remove these options instead of lazily bandaiding the game. You managed to get rid of cheats with battleeye. I mean, sure, it was easy. Battleeye itself did all the work. Do it with your engine now.
Thanks.

P.S. Didn't play for a while and didn't use any of that stuff, wasn't banned for it.

These bans were for removing grass, smoke, textures, graphical effects and more and they were banned only for 1 day. These tweaks DO NOT INCREASE performance, they only give you abusive advantage over other users. You can tweak your settings in whatever way you want from the Nvidia control panel, these bans were for using an unofficial program called Nvidia Inspector, which you can still keep using for stuff like limiting FPS, but your PC gets flagged if you use it for what I mentioned above.

Third-party stuff like SweetFX is allowed as long as it's not for removing grass, smoke, textures and so on, and as long as BattlEye doesn't block the program.

Other popular games had the same issues with this Nvidia Inspector program too which, again, is not official, you cannot download it from nvidia.com and people were banned for using it.
Last edited by Chandrian on 20.04.2019, 14:40, edited 1 time in total.
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21.04.2019, 08:26

ivan_vg:
Anyway, I personally don't see a point in continuing this discussion unless there will be some sort of evidence (e.g. video) that support any of these claims.


You don't see point to continue this discussion? It mean that when some of us tell you something you don't believe them? How do you want we trust you if you don't trust us.
And concerning the video it was already few video showing those problems and nothing was done.
Can you explain me when I have a red marker that I kill someone he is still running?

In reality you don't really want we show you video, you don't really want me bring you prove if you where interesting you would create your own proper replayer.


Do any body remember this video, it was in chemical plan where the video was share in 2part and where you could see a difference in the timeline?
Last edited by William-g on 21.04.2019, 08:29, edited 1 time in total.
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22.04.2019, 00:21

William-g wrote:It mean that when some of us tell you something you don't believe them? How do you want we trust you if you don't trust us.

The thing is - usually there is no point in telling me. Without any way for me to investigate this situation in detail I can't do much. Video is something that allow me to do such investigation quickly and determine what has happened. Words alone won't help me with investigation.
William-g wrote:And concerning the video it was already few video showing those problems and nothing was done.

Link please.
William-g wrote:Can you explain me when I have a red marker that I kill someone he is still running?

There are several cases, two I can think about are: connection issue during this moment or this shot had happened after your death. But this is guesswork. I need something solid, like clip with such situation.
William-g wrote:In reality you don't really want we show you video, you don't really want me bring you prove if you where interesting you would create your own proper replayer.

We do have one - whenever you play match game automatically records "journal". However
1) Investigation using journal takes a lot of time - I need to setup a few things and then keep looking to find any irregularities. Often it takes 1-2 hours only to determine whether everything is OK or there is something that warrants investigation. For video this takes a few minutes at most.
2) Journal is something that only I (as developer) can see. Unlike video I can't say "hey, look at this frame - this is because of <game rule> and not a bug"
William-g wrote:Do any body remember this video, it was in chemical plan where the video was share in 2part and where you could see a difference in the timeline?

Link please.

ivan_vg
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22.04.2019, 03:32

Chandrian:
These bans were for removing grass, smoke, textures, graphical effects and more and they were banned only for 1 day. These tweaks DO NOT INCREASE performance, they only give you abusive advantage over other users. You can tweak your settings in whatever way you want from the Nvidia control panel, these bans were for using an unofficial program called Nvidia Inspector, which you can still keep using for stuff like limiting FPS, but your PC gets flagged if you use it for what I mentioned above.

Third-party stuff like SweetFX is allowed as long as it's not for removing grass, smoke, textures and so on, and as long as BattlEye doesn't block the program.

Other popular games had the same issues with this Nvidia Inspector program too which, again, is not official, you cannot download it from nvidia.com and people were banned for using it.

We both know stuff like removing smoke or grass does increase performance.
(By the way. Played one match today. Some players still seem to blatantly shoot through smokes)
This whole "you can but just so little"tweaks line is so thin. VG has to get their stuff together and atleast have strict rules about tht stuff. Either completely removing graphic tweaks by impoving their engine or allowing everything. Something inbetween is lazy.
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22.04.2019, 07:32

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:We both know stuff like removing smoke or grass does increase performance.
(By the way. Played one match today. Some players still seem to blatantly shoot through smokes)
This whole "you can but just so little"tweaks line is so thin. VG has to get their stuff together and atleast have strict rules about tht stuff. Either completely removing graphic tweaks by impoving their engine or allowing everything. Something inbetween is lazy.


You can no longer "tweak" graphics.
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joewillburn
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22.04.2019, 10:34

I say name them if they are found cheating/tweaking again after 1 day ban.
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22.04.2019, 12:56

joewillburn:

You can no longer "tweak" graphics.

I can lower them in my Nvidia command panel, increase brightness to see an enemy better in a dark area, etc.
What about that? It gives me an advantage in a certain situation and is third party since it's Nvidia control panel.
VG does it halfassed as usual.
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