Bans for Using Third-Party Software

Discussion of the latest news and events related to Survarium.

06.04.2019, 17:19

UnknownPlayer666 wrote:Because it doesn't work well with Survarium. Whenever I make sudden 180 moves it tends to drop a frame or two and I get a stutter.

Why not Riva Tuner?
(I'm awaiting answer from Support about limiting FPS with Inspector).

edit: I got an answer from Ivan Savenko:
Code: Select all
Using Nvidia Inspector to limit FPS, is it allowed? (shared your steps)

Code: Select all
Yes. As long as you're not using options that alter graphics you will be fine.
Last edited by Chandrian on 06.04.2019, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Chandrian
Supermoderator
Survivor
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: 03.04.2013, 18:33
Location: Spain

06.04.2019, 18:09

I'm curious about something. You are aware that Nvidia Inspector works with Nvidia game profiles, right? Something that is a part of the GPU driver? You can modify existing profiles, create new ones, set some options not available from official control panel, but are still part of the driver. Changes made by Inspector don't require the application to run in background, you just set it, and then you can even delete the app and the changes in the profile will be still there. The profiles are being stored in binary format, so its not trivial task to read them, you need Nvidia Inspector to do that.

So, ho do you know, those people were using Nvidia Inspector to cheat, and not to limit fps?
Last edited by yaji on 06.04.2019, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.

yaji
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 05.01.2014, 20:47

06.04.2019, 19:18

Are you aware that Nvidia Profile Inspector is third-party tool and is unrelated to Nvidia?
If this tool can read and write profiles then what's stopping us from doing something like that?

ivan_vg
Vostok Games
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 24.10.2016, 10:24

06.04.2019, 19:32

Ok, so you can read the profiles, but do you do this locally, or you download them from our PC, to later check them ?

yaji
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 05.01.2014, 20:47

06.04.2019, 20:12

yaji wrote:Ok, so you can read the profiles, but do you do this locally, or you download them from our PC, to later check them ?

You are asking for info like this to be able to abuse it?
User avatar
Chandrian
Supermoderator
Survivor
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: 03.04.2013, 18:33
Location: Spain

06.04.2019, 21:01

No, but I think there are two options. You read the profiles locally or download them from users machines, and both options are pretty spooky. That means the game can browse the drives and read ANY file on it. And I don't feel comfortable with that. Malicious software works this way.

I completely understand protecting game directory, or checking process list to see if nothing sketchy is running. But accessing any files or directories? What stops you, for example, searching for *.kdbx files?

yaji
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 05.01.2014, 20:47

06.04.2019, 21:48

First of all - you're incorrect in your assumptions as to how Nvidia profiles work.
As for the rest - Survarium does not sends any files from your system (or any data in general) that is not connected to the game.

ivan_vg
Vostok Games
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 24.10.2016, 10:24

06.04.2019, 22:29

The profiles are here:

C:\ProgramData\NVIDIA Corporation\Drs

How those files are connected to Survarium?

How do you know whats inside those files, without accessing them, reading them, and sending information back to you?
Last edited by yaji on 06.04.2019, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

yaji
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 05.01.2014, 20:47

06.04.2019, 22:41

Again, you're incorrect in your assumptions as to how Nvidia profiles work and how we're accessing that data

ivan_vg
Vostok Games
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 24.10.2016, 10:24

06.04.2019, 23:00

I did some tests, changed few profiles, and the files got updated. But I won't argue with you about that. I just have a security concerns, serious ones in my opinion. I can't see any other way for doing what you did, than by remotely accessing the files on user machines. I may be wrong, but its better to be safe than sorry, and I deleted the game.

yaji
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 05.01.2014, 20:47

06.04.2019, 23:35

@yaji, my personal guess is that they don't need to read the profiles. The game has to access your GPU driver to render everything, so they probably just check the LOD Bias hex values for Survarium from within the driver itself while it's being executed.
User avatar
Chandrian
Supermoderator
Survivor
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: 03.04.2013, 18:33
Location: Spain

07.04.2019, 13:41

ivan_vg:Again, you're incorrect in your assumptions as to how Nvidia profiles work and how we're accessing that data


This should be addressed then. Being purposefully vague doesn't help anyone.

Specify exactly how you're detecting these tweaks.

Because of this, I've stopped limiting my FPS using Nvidia Profile Inspector now. I don't want my name to be tarnished by accusations of cheating. I guess I gotta use RivaTuner now.

Chandrian:@yaji, my personal guess is that they don't need to read the profiles. The game has to access your GPU driver to render everything, so they probably just check the LOD Bias hex values for Survarium from within the driver itself while it's being executed.


This is the sort of response that was needed.
Last edited by xR0ger on 07.04.2019, 13:42, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
xR0ger
 
Posts: 218
Joined: 09.11.2014, 15:20

07.04.2019, 14:02

xR0ger wrote:Because of this, I've stopped limiting my FPS using Nvidia Profile Inspector now. I don't want my name to be tarnished by accusations of cheating.


answer from Ivan Savenko:
Code: Select all
Using Nvidia Inspector to limit FPS, is it allowed? (shared your steps)

Code: Select all
Yes. As long as you're not using options that alter graphics you will be fine.

Sepul
Supermoderator
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: 08.01.2014, 11:14
Location: Vostok Games

07.04.2019, 14:17

@yaji
Using same logic as yours you can say that *any* software accesses files on your machine - such as reading from Windows Registry (since in the end registry is also stored in binary files).

What Survarium may access and send is data that is directly related to Survarium (e.g. game files) or directly affects the game, such as registry entries related to Survarium (e.g. Survarium startup parameters) or in this case - Nvidia profile parameters that are active in Survarium (e.g "global profile" and Survarium profile).

If you have statistics gathering enabled then we may also send some basic information regarding your system (e.g. OS version, GPU model and such) as well as game performance (basically - framerate)

We do not perform any file system scanning or accessing random files and we definitely do not have any sort of remote access to your system.

ivan_vg
Vostok Games
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 24.10.2016, 10:24

07.04.2019, 15:02

1 day, just a joke.
User avatar
William-g
 
Posts: 1387
Joined: 07.04.2014, 10:57
Location: warsaw

07.04.2019, 16:17

Big sympathy for this step VG! Thank you, that you care about your players guys!
No exploitation of game mechanics should be tolerated as long as it gives advantage over other players, playing fair!
Everyone has the right to have an equal chance to compete against others!
No forgiveness for cheaters!
So does this have an affect on the league results of particular players? Imo their results should be not taken into account

Now, if you officially start developing freeplay, I´ll be glad to return :-)
Last edited by RiotOfDoom on 07.04.2019, 16:24, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
RiotOfDoom
Survivor
 
Posts: 570
Joined: 11.05.2013, 14:32
Location: Phobos

07.04.2019, 16:46

ivan_vg wrote:If you have statistics gathering enabled then we may also send some basic information regarding your system (e.g. OS version, GPU model and such) as well as game performance (basically - framerate)

A bit offtopic, but does this option gather netcode issues related data? If someone has bad hitreg or connection issues and disables this or the seeding option, will it prevent from helping you fix such issues?
User avatar
Chandrian
Supermoderator
Survivor
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: 03.04.2013, 18:33
Location: Spain

07.04.2019, 19:16

@Chandrian
Partially - yes. This option does not affects things like journals but we can use statistics to quickly check trends - e.g. are there any differences between different servers? Have anything changed after new update? And such.
So while it won't prevent from fixing but may prevent us from finding that such issue exists in the first place.

Seeding should have no effect on gameplay since it is not active during matches.

ivan_vg
Vostok Games
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 24.10.2016, 10:24

07.04.2019, 22:09

SportR Ciri Julia:1 day.
ONE day! xD
… for ruining whole communities game experience over long period of time and many matches.

They go partying, have a good laugh and are back.

List of all the names, or ""Shame and blame "", would be so much more effective to remove this habit and attitude to cheat.
Pretty disappointing i must say.


+1

The initial ban should've been 1 month or at least a week. This is cheating and cheating is prohibited. Period.
User avatar
wllayco
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 14.07.2015, 12:29

08.04.2019, 14:26

Double-confirmation by Support (Ivan had already confirmed it):

If you play Survarium with locked fps via Inspector, the game won't be flagged due to this parameter.

That is, as long as you follow these steps provided by UnknownPlayer666 and not something else.
User avatar
Chandrian
Supermoderator
Survivor
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: 03.04.2013, 18:33
Location: Spain

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.

Return to News



cron