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Discussion of the latest news and events related to Survarium.

18.07.2018, 19:40

joewillburn:

MM based on ELO is very accurate.



https://survarium.pro/matches/11554452

I think you might want to rethink that statement...
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Scaramanga
 
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18.07.2018, 19:57

Scaramanga:


https://survarium.pro/matches/11554452

I think you might want to rethink that statement...


And where will the MM find a 4k ELO match, given the pool of players at that given moment ? Low playerbase is the root of the problem and single tier should fix that (I hope).
Last edited by UnknownPlayer666 on 18.07.2018, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
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UnknownPlayer666
 
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18.07.2018, 23:51

UnknownPlayer666:

And where will the MM find a 4k ELO match, given the pool of players at that given moment ? Low playerbase is the root of the problem and single tier should fix that (I hope).


Just saying MM could have rearranged that match to make it much more balanced (on paper at least). There were 2 squads in the match, one 2 man of hand of midas and xam, and the other a three man squad of honour_dragon, erich manstein and witcher88. Those 2 squads are roughly equal in ELO, so MM could have put them on separate teams and then filled the teams with the rest of us. But it chose not to do that and instead put both squads on the same team, which resulted in a nearly 5500 point difference in overall team ELO.
Plus, the strongest 5 players in the game are all on the same team...
I just don't understand why MM decided that was the best way to make the teams?
Does not exactly inspire confidence that moving to one tier will solve the balance issues.
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Scaramanga
 
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19.07.2018, 05:39

dima:

Are you planning to reset player's ELO after removing tier system? If someone was playing with weaker players all the time on T1 or T2 for example and he have same ELO like player, who played all the time on T5 with experienced players ELO will be inadequate to the new situation..
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Albi
 
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19.07.2018, 07:41

Scaramanga:


https://survarium.pro/matches/11554452

I think you might want to rethink that statement...

O.o
Punch in the face from MM.
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Tanatloc
 
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19.07.2018, 17:55

dima:Let me explain how current matchmaking is working:
1) players in squads are taken into account with a factor more than 1 to compensate for their possible better teamwork

What issues we see with it:
4) squad doesn't always mean a better cooperation

What we propose:

Is the "squad ELO multiplier" still x1,25 or have you tweaked it somehow? I mean that "more than 1".

I see you didn't mention a proposal to fix this, do you have something in mind or do you just hope all the coming changes will make the balance so much better that there's no need to do more balancing with squads?
Would it be possible to gather intel on players behaviour (or more like his performance, match score) while playing in squad, so the MM could use a better multiplier, essentially giving every player their own "squad ELO multiplier"? Or some other way to see if someone is good or bad squad player.

Tsjuder
 
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20.07.2018, 08:30

Scaramanga:

Just saying MM could have rearranged that match to make it much more balanced (on paper at least). There were 2 squads in the match, one 2 man of hand of midas and xam, and the other a three man squad of honour_dragon, erich manstein and witcher88. Those 2 squads are roughly equal in ELO, so MM could have put them on separate teams and then filled the teams with the rest of us. But it chose not to do that and instead put both squads on the same team, which resulted in a nearly 5500 point difference in overall team ELO.
Plus, the strongest 5 players in the game are all on the same team...
I just don't understand why MM decided that was the best way to make the teams?
Does not exactly inspire confidence that moving to one tier will solve the balance issues.


Your example is great, MM makes games with unbalanced ELO too, but i mentioned an other situation where the ELO is seriously equal, but the game is seriously unbalanced.

Just a last example from me to this ELO thing: two teams with 16000 overall elo each.

Team one: 2k + 2k + 2k + 2k + 2k + 2k + 2k + 2k = 16,000.
Team two: 3k + 3k + 3k + 3k + 1k + 1k + 1k + 1k = 16,000.
Equal? Equal. Accurate? Accurate. Balanced? NO!!!

Team two will be the winner in the 90% of the cases. Because the difference between 1000 and 2000 is 1000, and the difference between 2000 and 3000 is 1000 too, but absolutely not equal in experience/knowledge of the game.
It is so easy to go up from 1000 to 2000, and not so easy to go up from 2000 to 3000.
So, by the paper, the 3000 ELO player is equal with a 2000+1000 ELO players, but they are not. The 3000 elo player will slay both the other players. I'm a 3000+ elo player, and i can easily slay down 1000 and/or 2000 elo players, most of the times they cannot shoot back a single bullet...
And yes, 5000+ Elo players can slay me down like a duck in the duck hunt game. So, the 5000 elo player is much more stronger than a 3000+2000 elo players. Or 5x 1000 ELO players.

But, seriously the last comment from me about to the ELO topic, i told everything i want about this and where the MM fails i think. So thank You all for reading me!

PS.: my highest elo is 3750 on my main account (lvl 94), and 3250 on my 'Steam account' (lvl 69).
Last edited by _ChE4ty_Br3Eki_ on 20.07.2018, 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
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_ChE4ty_Br3Eki_
 
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20.07.2018, 08:50

Scaramanga wrote:

https://survarium.pro/matches/11554452

I think you might want to rethink that statement...


You seem to not have read my statement correctly. ELO as a system is accurate. But as I said many times, it cannot be untilised to its full potential while we have multiple xp levels, multiple tiers and elo. Too many factors to take into account.
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joewillburn
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20.07.2018, 09:00

An another "issue", the squads.
Squads are really good, and i love games where squadding up with friends is allowed!
But please, INCREASE the possible number of players in squads!
It's not so good if we are 5 on the TeamSpeak, and we have to play a 3 vs 2 game, because the MM put our 2 squads into 2 teams. :(

Do max. 8-member squads, and only with this, you will solve many-many problems!

Unbalanced game because you are in a 8-member squad and the enemy was better? YOU have choosen this!

Don't want to play with bots?? Do a 8-member 'full' squad, and the MM will gives you 8 players against your squad! (Maybe longer waiting time, but NO BOTS!)

Do you want to play with your friends? You are allowed now!

So, that would be SO NICE! :)
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_ChE4ty_Br3Eki_
 
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20.07.2018, 09:21

This guy is nuts.
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Chandrian
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20.07.2018, 09:37

Chandrian:This guy is nuts.


Such is the zone. Takes a toll on your mind :(
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UnknownPlayer666
 
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20.07.2018, 09:45

@Joe. PTS. When ?
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UnknownPlayer666
 
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20.07.2018, 10:19

joewillburn:

You seem to not have read my statement correctly. ELO as a system is accurate. But as I said many times, it cannot be untilised to its full potential while we have multiple xp levels, multiple tiers and elo. Too many factors to take into account.



Ok, I accept that, but my point was MM had that pool of at least 16 players to choose from, and there are far better ways to balance that match (on paper) than what it ended up doing (as I said in my last post).
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Scaramanga
 
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20.07.2018, 12:04

UnknownPlayer666 wrote:@Joe. PTS. When ?


Possibly today. I've just finished with the news and patch notes. We're waiting on the go ahead from Dima.
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joewillburn
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20.07.2018, 12:04

joewillburn:

Possibly today. I've just finished with the news and patch notes. We're waiting on the go ahead from Dima.



+1

Paavel Autojuht
 
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20.07.2018, 20:23

Surtvarium Public Terst Server v0.53a1 is open!

All who downloaded version *before* its official opening should uninstall and install it again since they will get resyncs and won't be able to update to the newer versions.

Thanks to all who found a time to log in and test!
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dima
 
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26.07.2018, 12:07

So you finally got of RNG^2 a few updates ago just to screw free players over and introduces RNG^3.
Winning a match with godawful, broke fake Elo×Getting a module you can upgrade×50%chance to upgrade.

And oh boy does the jumping break the game. A PvP game where you can bunnyhop away from any danger because the hitreg is awful makes is unplayable.

You manage to deliver a steady up and down, VG. With more downs. Why don't you all take a week off and do a playsession of some truly good PvP FPS games?
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Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer
 
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26.07.2018, 12:38

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer:So you finally got of RNG^2 a few updates ago just to screw free players over and introduces RNG^3.
Winning a match with godawful, broke fake Elo×Getting a module you can upgrade×50%chance to upgrade.

And oh boy does the jumping break the game. A PvP game where you can bunnyhop away from any danger because the hitreg is awful makes is unplayable.

You manage to deliver a steady up and down, VG. With more downs. Why don't you all take a week off and do a playsession of some truly good PvP FPS games?

Any feedback should be posted on the PTS thread, if it is feedback based on what you playtested (the jumping part) and not just read it in the preview.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15974
Last edited by Chandrian on 26.07.2018, 12:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Chandrian
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27.07.2018, 10:32

Dauerfeuer Ungeheuer wrote:because the hitreg is awful makes is unplayable.


People complain about this so much. Yet I hit when I shoot. I really don't understand all these claims.
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joewillburn
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27.07.2018, 20:30

Yeah, all those people must be wrong because it works on my machine ;^)

yaji
 
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